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Since commenting I’ve watched the film. Absolutely blown away by the work Jonathan was doing and equally devastated that the programme was pulled. Makes no sense at all. It wasn’t until I watched this I remembered that secure units were part of the journey for some of them I worked with. In relation to radicalisation, I remembered a time Fulton had just been released from prison and visited me. He was excited to tell me about the Irish troubles and sang me Irish rebel songs. I instantly thought 'rebel without a cause' has found a cause to hang his hat on. I’d argue, as would most with an iota of understanding of the underlying issues and complexities, that far from stopping programmes like SVI, the need for intervention on this level, needs to come earlier.

I'm rooting for all who were featured in the film. I genuinely witnessed a degree of peace within them that I hope continues.

I look forward to the book!

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Wow! This may have, personally, been the most fascinating of all the subjects covered. I learnt so much from Jonathan in just this one interview. My background was in working with adolescents (I managed several children's homes and a boys home) and I can honestly say this has inspired me to come out of retirement like nothing else. I’m hungry to know more and will read and watch all that was mentioned. It sent me on a journey back in time, to young people I’ve worked with, and specific incidents, which I’ve retrospectively applied shame/violence theory to. I thought of one in particular; Fulton. He was extremely violent. His life, in a nutshell; given up for adoption at birth. Adoption breakdown, into the care system - many foster homes, then the children's home. Next was Feltham (incidentally to anyone who knows Feltham he send to say they needed crampons to play football because the pitch is n a slope). After leaving the care system he lived on the streets, between spells n prison, always for violence. I kept in touch with him throughout; visited him on the streets and in prison, wrote to him (and other prisoners he asked me to visit and write to! ‘They’ve got no one Jac’) Then he disappeared off the radar, about 20 years ago. I tried tracking him down and eventually, through prison records. discovered he’d died in Wandsworth following a violent incident with another prisoner. I remember feeling relief at the time, that he was finally out of his misery. His self loathing and shame were palpable. I was relived too that he wouldn’t hurt any more innocent victims, because they were, in the main. Shame and violence.

Two more quick points; institutionalisation. It was usual for the majority of our boys to go from care home to young offender to adult prison. That or the army. They felt comfortable and safe in an institution. I used to think it was to do with having boundaries set for them. Controlled environment where they lacked self control. I'm going to revisit this now.

The other point was in relation to second hand emotions. I often used Tina Turner's ‘what’s love got to do with it’ as a starting point in training on behavioural feelings.

Thank you for introducing me to this. I’m hooked on learning more.

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